blogs: Rick Redding 

I'm due a good rant, so here goes. Here's why the politics of Kentucky education are so screwed up. Yesterday, a Senate committee voted unanimously to do an end run around the church/state separation law so the public schools can teach from the Bible, supposedly as a historical text. At the same time, these same people will ultimately refuse to require sex education in public schools, helping our state maintain its spot atop national rankings for teen pregnancy, as we talked about yesterday. And in other education news, everybody's on board with this new requirement that kids stay in high school until they're 18, but there seems to be no plan for enforcement and no money (which the bill's sponsors say is needed) to implement programs to keep 17-year-olds interested enough to stick around long enough to get a diploma. Seriously, Radcliff's Elizabeth Tori (R) was quoted in the C-J saying to the Bible bill's sponsors, "an angel was sent down on your shoulders” prompting “you to put this bill together.” So our politicians believe in imaginary cherubs from the sky dropping down to suggest legislation. Alert the writers at the Jon Stewart show. Tori added: “I've said for many years that until we put God back into our households, things in society will not change for the better,” Tori said. “Your bill is the first step to that change.” Sorry, Ms. Tori, but there are schools you can send your kids to if you want a religious education. Those aren't the ones funded by taxpayers. Of course, part of the problem here is that the politicians we're paying to fix things in Frankfort spend their time on these kinds of issues, apparently because they think it will make them look good in the eyes of voters, who should care less. Like House Bill 58, which passed the House unanimously on Thursday, which toughens the state's drunk driving laws, requiring judges to order first-time drunk drivers to install a breath-alcohol monitoring device in their cars. It came about because a Wilder state rep's daughter was injured in a crash seven years ago. The device keeps you from starting your car, even at a breath-alcohol level of .02, well under the legal limit. So a group lobbying for restaurant interests is prepared to fight it, logically arguing that it would prevent responsible individuals from having a single glass of wine with dinner. So rather than spending their time trying to figure out solutions to real problems, like a budget shortfall that has university presidents talking about layoffs and reduced scholarship money, lawmakers are talking about the Bible and sex education in schools and trying to make themselves look tough on drunk driving. And what they won't talk about, or even consider, are solutions to the state's revenue shortfall. The latest budget proposal, from the House leadership, "cuts more than 250 political appointees, trims spending on private contractors, tinkers with the state health insurance program and delays some construction projects," according to the Herald-Leader. And it included zero money from gambling, even after Gov. Steve Beshear included $780 million in his budget for something he had no prayer of getting passed. Beshear even went to the well a second time, asking the state Senate to reconsider a gambling compromise. No dice. So Kentucky lawmakers, fresh out of solutions for the state's serious problems, waste time in Frankfort talking about the Bible.

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	kydruid   fri feb 19 2010 at 9:07 am         ·  First of all, on the Bible issue. I say fine, but put in context. Compare and contrast to other major religious texts. Writings from Greek, Roman and Norse mythologies, the teaching of Shinto, Tao, Buddha, Hinduism, the Torah, and yes, the Quran. Only then will it be fairly taught. I'll even go as far as to say that neo-paganism should be excluded as there's no one defining idea or document to fit this context. Secondly, in regards to sex ed, if parents truly stepped up and objectively offered their children information and trusted them to make their own choices at the right times, it'd be one thing. Parents too often avoid this issue so they can avoid the discomfort of putting ideas in their kid's heads or are so heavy handed the child lives in fear and shame, still feeling and experimenting, but hating their parents and themselves for their thoughts and subsequent actions. It's true some parents handle these questions sanely and responsibly, but that is a rare exception. These are the same parents who let their children get "home schooled" by cinemax and myspace because they've got their own demons to wrangle. So until parents can act like responsible adults, maybe the schools should have a hand in offering up some of this education that really should be theirs to give.
	Ultimaratio1   fri feb 19 2010 at 9:12 am         ·  I am all for the Bible being taught as literature in the schools, but not as a recruiting or indoctrination tool for Christian preachers. There's a fine line there. People need to know Biblical literature, since much of our own culture's literature would be difficult to understand without understanding references to, say, the Prodigal Son, or the Wisdom of Solomon. If a book's title is 'Absalom, Absalom', it is helpful to know just who Absalom was. Some folks (since the proposed law does not say WHICH Bible need be used) might even discover that the Ten Commandments the fundamentalists are propping up on Courthouse lawns all over the Commonwealth are not the same Ten that other Churches (like my own Catholic Church) use because there is a different count in a different part of the Bible. The cadences of the KJV are wonderful as literature, even though the 'inerrency' of its text leaves a lot to argue about- in fact, a good teacher of the Bible as literature might point out disputes over the translation in a class on translating Greek or Hebrew into KJV English. The Legislature is treading on dangerous ground when it relies on the urging of fundamentalist legislators to adopt such a law - legislative intent may well be suspect. I'd still think we would do well to include Bible literacy in our classrooms in the same way we include Shakespeare.
	Charlotte Hendrick #314999   fri feb 19 2010 at 10:04 am         ·  I do not find the logic in this argument. Responsible individuals would not be precluded from having a single glass of wine with dinner. They are not the ones with Breath Alcohol Devices on their cars....("So a group lobbying for restaurant interests is prepared to fight it, logically arguing that it would prevent responsible individuals from having a single glass of wine with dinner.")
	Film Guy   fri feb 19 2010 at 10:30 am         ·  I'm gonna take a different slant on this: it's about power control and politicians are basically the Execs in the Corporation known as government. As long as they keep the clientele always buying into the product or in this case keep the people from being educated and from thinking for themselves, then they feel justified in doing what they do and in counting on underestimating the populace. We lose because we let them do this.
	Kool Jerk   fri feb 19 2010 at 10:31 am         ·  This will just generate many more reasons that kids go to school and get beat up or killed there. Many, many wars, most wars have been started over the bible and religious beliefs as it is.
	blue dog   fri feb 19 2010 at 10:40 am         ·  Religion is available in schools, private schools. The problem is for those who want religion in schools so bad is that private schools cost money. Apparently these people who want prayer in school so badly, do not value enough to pay for it. If we are going to have the Bible, lets have all other religions, not just Christian. Kentucky voters need to take politics seriously, because like it or not it is serious business.
	J.S. Holland   fri feb 19 2010 at 10:47 am         ·  Elizabeth Tori is, to put it mildly, a nutcase. She's also been pushing a bill (SB38) that would FORCE doctors to, at their own expense, do an ultrasound of the fetus and show it to any woman seeking an abortion. Even if doctor and patient don't want to. Googling her name shows her to be closely linked with the agenda of so-called "Dominionist" churches, which are a scary and growing group who believe that they are morally obligated to turn the planet into Christ's dominion by any means necessary, even if it means breaking or circumventing the law.
	Kool Jerk   fri feb 19 2010 at 11:14 am         ·  Who let Jesus in?
	G-Rod   fri feb 19 2010 at 11:32 am         ·  Kydruid, Don't overload our children with this. People aren't in high school long enough to learn about all of the world's religious texts and religious ideals. Besides, who needs to know all of that? I would like to think that the Bible is being taught in our schools because historically, it played more of a role in shaping this country than any other religious text.
	Beverly Bartlett   fri feb 19 2010 at 11:39 am         ·  I really don't want to be rude, but I think it is pretty obnoxious to actually use Christ's name as your own and thus present your own opinions as his. I'm rather moderate on this issue. I think truly educated people ought to know a great deal about all the world's religions and, in this country, Christianity in particular. But realistically, the political fallout would be a nightmare. Many conservative Christians think, for example, that a Presbyterian Bible Study is ridiculous, blasphemous, and horrific. If that's how they feel about a slightly more liberal group of believers, there's no way a public school could teach anything that would work for both believers and nonbelievers. I also just don't understand the thinking of people who don't trust the schools to teach their children about reproduction, but want the schools to teach their children something as personal and subjective as religion. But I disagree on the drop-out age. Most of the time, there is no point in passing a law without a way to enforce it. But right now, you have people saying to their kids -- why I'll never know -- "Once you get to be 16, you can drop out." If they start saying "once you get to 18, you can drop out." That might make a difference and I don't see what it hurts.
	Ed Springston   fri feb 19 2010 at 11:55 am         ·  On the dropout issue I personally have never understood how you can drop out of school at 16 yet not considered an adult until you are 18. If we are to assume at 16 parents are the ones in control of our kids then how can we justify letting them make a choice as a legal child to drop out of school? It is our job as parents to hold our children accountable. 18 is reasonable. At 16 you cannot even get a job after hours because of child labor laws so what can you offer in the interim 2 years? In this economy those jobs do not exist anyway so why not be in school getting an education that will benefit you through the years. Pass the bill keeping kids in school until they are 18. It's a no brainer and it would be consistent with our laws regarding legal age of consent.
	Anmorata   fri feb 19 2010 at 2:30 pm         ·  Blah. Kids should be learning bible at home not school. There are not enough people who teach sex ed to their kids that is why the schools are doing as well they should be.Children deserve to be educated on the adult consequences on adult decisions. And if they go through with these horrid things they should have an opt out for both bible and sex ed. That way parents who object will get their says so.
	Kool Jerk   fri feb 19 2010 at 2:51 pm         ·  Who in their right mind would trust school teachers to teach the bible anyway? What a joke.
	Film Guy   fri feb 19 2010 at 4:27 pm         ·  Instead of sex ed, how about teaching about relationships? Or is that too progressive?
	feelthatfire   fri feb 19 2010 at 4:48 pm         ·  funny how christian politicians are so gung-ho to see their own religion taught in schools. can you say conflict of interest? but if anyone tried to teach islam in public schools, those same politicans would be crapping themselves.
	Beverly Bartlett   fri feb 19 2010 at 9:04 pm         ·  Mike, I'm sorry. I was probably being a little... humorless or kneejerk or something. I just looked at your comment, out of the context of what you are normally doing, and ... you know... it looks like a quote box attributed to Jesus, but I realize that wasn't really what you intended. I was being a little literal. Sorry.
	metricsister   fri feb 19 2010 at 11:55 pm         ·  the bible is filled with polygamy, misogyny, murder, torture, infanticide, cannibalism, slavery, ritual sacrifice, nudity, racism, rape, incest, animal abuse, erotica, mass slaughter, men washing each other's feet..... great stuff for kids to be reading! http://www.evilbible.com/
	Kool Jerk   fri feb 19 2010 at 11:57 pm         ·  How can they teach the bible as there are more than one bible?
	kydruid   sat feb 20 2010 at 12:28 am         ·  G-Rod, the point I'm making with it is simple. If they wish to bring the Bible back into the schools, under "literary" reasons, then they need to do it right. They're calling it literature much the same as the Judges who refer to the 10 commandments as the basis of our law and therefore should be posted in the courtroom. It is a ruse to work around separation of church and state. I'm just pointing that should they wish to bring the Bible back as a "literary" tool, then build a curriculum where it would be seen for the literature they're claiming, not the government sanctioned Bible study class they're subversively proposing. Bible study should be done either in the home or in the church. And to offer up the Bible as literature and not give other faiths similar treatment is unfair at best, not to mention blatantly un-American where the country was founded on a person's right to believe as they choose. So, if you feel the students would be overloaded by my idea of a curriculum, then it would be as unfair to them to provide only one religious world view especially when calling it "literature". So, if fairness can't be handled by the teacher of such a class or it would be viewed with dismay by the school, then I guess the topic wouldn't be appropriate for the schools. Solved that problem right there, didn't we?
	kydruid   sat feb 20 2010 at 1:01 am         ·  Oh, and by the way, G-Rod, your thoughts on this topic is *exactly* why its concept is subversive and insidious. I understanding not re-inventing the wheel, not upsetting the cart, etc. But forcing one view on everyone because a large percentage feels that way is mob rule, and against the tenets of our nation and what is true conservative values, which holds the individual in the highest regard over any group or government, not the neo-conservative approach which is conservative in social thought alone.
	bikecommuter   sat feb 20 2010 at 1:53 am         ·  Religious zealots are bent on pushing their brand as if it were a product in a vending machine, and they also want to own the vending machine. No Coke! Pepsi! I don't trust the wingnuts to teach our kids religion or anything else. They complain and act persecuted because "athiests took prayer out of our schools." Boo! Hoo! Nonsense! When my kids were in public schools I let them know they could pray anywhere they wanted to pray. The wingnuts want to institutionalize prayer and religion. They'd love it blaring over the schools'loudspeakers every morning so their brand of prayer wins. I can think of no better way to trivialize the teachings of Christ that I embrace. I'm proud to be a thinking Christian. In this democratic republic we don't need to ram our beliefs through our nation's institutions. That's what the free marketplace of ideas is for. Our lawmakers should tell the zealots to sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here.
	chuck   sat feb 20 2010 at 7:13 am         ·  Our state is just about at the bottom of so many issues: - Literacy - Pregnant Teens - Divorce - Small particulate pollution How could we possibly screw things up more by throwing more bible study at it? While we're at it, why don't we start teaching creationism, the evils of vaccines and the fallacy of climate change. All science is bogus... everyone is now allowed to make it up as they go. (it's a free-for-all, yay!) Ignorance is fun and a lot easier than the truth.
	Ultimaratio1   sat feb 20 2010 at 9:06 am         ·  I realize there's a church-state issue here, and I have been on the ACLU's side in the Ten Commandments issues. I am nonetheless convinced that the Bible's place in our culture requires that it be studied in schools for its literary and historical content, under strict guidelines. So, for an example, if a class on literature is studying early poetic forms, they might take out their Bibles and read the Song of Solomon (which would even contribute to their sex ed curriculum.) For another example, if a class on literature is going to study the uses of analogy and allegory, they might be told to take out their Bibles (whichever translation they want) and choose certain parables used by the Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth. For examples of apocalyptic literature referring back to events of the time when they were written, which would feed into a history class on Greek or Roman attitudes toward minority religious expression, they could study the use of symbols in the Book of Daniel or the Apocalypse of John. While such a treatment might raise the hackles of fundamentalists who miss the point of those books, a properly constructed curriculum could lead to more rational attitudes about the Bible than what we hear in the legislature.
	Kool Jerk   sat feb 20 2010 at 10:06 am         ·  “I've said for many years that until we put God back into our households, things in society will not change for the better,” Tori said. “ They never taught the bible in any school I went to. Society was better back then. If they didn't teach the bible in school in the 60's and 70's, why screw that up now? We have enough problems already.
	SortaAlwyzSmilin   sun feb 21 2010 at 12:46 pm         ·  The only constant in life is change, some changes are for the good some not. In a way i see a good to bring the bible in to teach historical but like druid said then shouldnt we bring that same idealogy from other books of religion? As far as sex is concerned it needs to be looked at as a science class. I am so sick and tired of hearing if we teach this they will take it as we are saying go ahead and have sex. Kids are having sex in freaking middle school now. When i graduated high school in 1986, i had several friends that were pregnant. And i was raped at 15. But after seeing how their lives were going i decided a baby was not for me. But believe me if they want to drink they will drink, if they want to do drugs they will do that and they will definitely have sex. Kentucky has been in the tops since i graduated with teen pregnancy and i am so tired of people arguing over if it should be taught. Teach it like a science/health class. Here is all the methods of birth control, he is stats on what teen pregnancy can do to kids. Its hard enough going thru high school NOT pregnant.
	truejager1   sun feb 21 2010 at 4:38 pm         ·  If they truely want to fix the education system in this city and state, start by doing away the school cluster system. I am originally from Ohio where we have school districts. There school systems know exactly how much money is coming in by how many people live in the city. When you buy a house somewhere, the school system is a factor. If the school system sucks, housing prices suck. As far as the black to white ratio, well that can not be a factor. If 80% of the people in an area are black seems that the student population will be 80% black. Law of averages. I hate the school systems in this area. The Bible should not be taught. I had a teacher that taught us about different religions affects in history, but did not go in depth about the religion. That is all that needs to be taught. If you want your child to know more, step up and be a parent! Sex ed needs to be taught! The problem with this country that children are have children. Dont be your childs friend, be the parent. Everone thought my dad was cool, but he was strict as hell. My friends knew this, but respect it. Step up and be a parent. If you are not ready for kids, then dont have them. Just my thoughts. Have more to say on this subject, but not going to get on my soap box! God, I hate to sound like my dad!!!!
	SortaAlwyzSmilin   sun feb 21 2010 at 4:51 pm         ·  When i was being raped i had so little knowledge i wasnt really sure what was going on. And in 1985 i couldnt go online and look stuff up. I had one friend who went to planned parenthood and would try to talk to the rest of us that may be active. She begged us all to go. After high school when i did become sexually active for the first year i used stuff from the drug store but i had alot of friends who didnt. And i know back when my parents were young people got married and had kids very early. But thats not the case anymore. Teens and young adults are so different than they used to be. I don't even remember hearing about std's other than chylamadia or syphilis when i was that age. But i know now there are tons more, and some there is no treatment for. Its freaking ridiculous they can require cpr to graduate to save someone's life but not sex ed which could just as well save peoples lives.