Louisville Mojo: HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS!?!

Is yelling the new spanking?

That was, more or less, the premise of a New York Times article last week, which has received a bit of attention in the blogosphere. Michelle Cottle had a particularly well-written reply for The New Republic.

The Times story had all sort of issues, in my humble opinion. You can start with the apparent underlying premise that parents didn't start yelling until after they stopped spanking.

Really?

And then you've got sentences like this:

“Many in today's pregnancy-flaunting, soccer-cheering, organic-snack-proffering generation of parents would never spank their children.”

That is such a snooty, New York Times sentence. I love the Times., but when they shoot out one of those, it just makes my brain hurt. Did I flaunt pregnancy? How? Why?

Would I be more likely to spank my child if he played baseball instead of soccer? What?

Also, 50 years ago, weren't ALL snacks organic?

But for all the story's faults, I think critics are focusing too much on the one thing they shouldn't. Whether it causes guilt.

I've just never cared that much if a story causes parents to feel guilt. I figure that for every parent who feels too much guilt, there's at least a couple who don't feel enough.

Sure, on an individual basis, I often advise friends, in all honesty, that they're piling guilt on themselves for no reason.

If a friend is feeling guilty because, say, her son had to change schools when she moved to a different city for a job, I tell her – and I mean it – that it's pointless to feel guilty about things that can't be helped.

But I don't think public discussion of education, social or parental issues should be directed with the aim of reducing guilt. We ought to be able to discuss the issues like grown-ups. If I say: “I only buy no-sugar-added apple sauce” and that makes you feel guilty, well, then I don't know what to tell you. One easy fix might be to say: “Oh, good idea!” And buy no-sugared added applesauce yourself.

So finally, what about the yelling? I actually think the expert with the “new spanking” quote is being misinterpreted by many readers. I don't think she's saying: “yelling is just as bad as spanking.” I think she means that since a lot of parents no longer spank, yelling is the ineffective discipline technique that they often use and regret later.

Now that? I would say that is a fair observation.

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frogbert wed oct 28 2009 at 11:14 am ·


	The first time i told my then 5 year old daughter to go out in the yard and pick her a switch for me to spank her with, just like Mom used to do to me, she looked at me like i just farted and said "I'll call CPS if you hit me". I believe my yelling at her afterwards was pretty effective, but i was careful to avoid any name calling while i was berating her. That seems to be worse than any spanking or yelling in my opinion.

Beverly Bartlett wed oct 28 2009 at 12:43 pm ·


	If "The Amazing Race" has taught me anything, namecallers are sad, miserable people. And that's even in all-adult circles. I agree that calling a child names is terrible.

chuck wed oct 28 2009 at 2:34 pm ·


	I'm always amazed when I hear about parents that are opposed to anyone spanking a child. I mean, if you're opposed to spanking your child, I think that's great... whatever is effective for you. But to be opposed to all parents spanking, I think that's a little too soft and new-agey. My mother used the switch and my father and later, step-father, used the belt. It was rare, but extremely effective and I don't feel traumatized or somehow adversely affected because of it. If anything, I learned very rapidly some lessons that I needed to learn. And I love my parents very much. :-)

Mojo Prize Wagon wed oct 28 2009 at 3:29 pm ·


	I yell too much but I do make a point to not say, for instance, that my son IS a jackass, I say, "quit being a jackass" or "quit acting like a jackass." Acting like a jackass is different than being one. It is subtle. Maybe too subtle. Here is what kids need more than yelling or spanking...they need you in their shit. They need to know you'll be there asking questions no matter what is going on. Be engaged and provide for them physically and emotionally and you simply CAN NOT fuck them up. I potty trained my boy, fed, bathed and clothed him...I also yelled at him about stupid shit that didn't need to be yelled about, and I feel horrible about it. I also know he loves me so much (he tells me all the time) and that he knows I love him and that I'm there for him. My daughters too. The early bonding and building of trust (that I never had with my father) makes all the difference. I don't yell at my oldest though. I used to. She just doesn't screw up as much and I think I relate to her more as a human being now that she's older. I have started to make a point of doing that with my son as he gets older. I don't have the answers for anyone. I'm a pretty big dick sometimes just like my dad was. I do try though and I know that my being around when they were young and needy will gloss over a whole lot of my mistakes.

Beverly Bartlett wed oct 28 2009 at 9:20 pm ·


	Prize Wagon, you're right. The difference between saying: "You're a jackass" and saying: "stop acting like a jackass" is subtle, BUT important. For one thing, on just the simplest level, "stop being" is actual instruction. (Not hopefully the only actual instruction ever offered. Hah!) But "You ARE" is just an insult. If anything it actually conveys: "this is what you are, there's no better I can expect from you." About spanking, Chuck: I don't think the sort of spanking that you describe (rare and mild) harms the child, but I think you can quibble about whether it's particularly effective. Of course, effective is relative. Compared to what? Certainly doing something is usually more effective than doing nothing. And it depends on what sorts of behavior it's used for. Running in the street is the classic example and I can see why people are drawn to it in that kind of "MUST GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS" kind of issue. But I don't think that spanking a kid who is, for example, having a tantrum is usually effective. The whole "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" message never made a lick (so to speak!) of sense to me. Really, the most critical thing is, as much as possible, absolute consistency and follow through. If you say, "one more word and we're walking out of this store," then you better be prepared to leave the groceries in the cart and walk out of the store. It STINKS, sometimes, but they quickly learn that you mean what you say, which is half the bat

flexible! thu oct 29 2009 at 6:45 am ·


	I have used both spanking and yelling in the past, but rarely - they are the same in that both have to be used sparingly and judiciously to remain effective...if overdone, the child becomes immune to them and they backfire... thought provoking as always BB!

GApeach1982 thu oct 29 2009 at 9:14 pm ·


	My 4 year old and I are going through the faze of talking back! I am not sure what approach to take with her at this time. Spanking isn't the answer, I have tried. Talking to her isn't the answer I have tried that too. Where do I go from here?

Beverly Bartlett sun nov 01 2009 at 8:20 pm ·


	Hey, GA Peach, sorry for the slow response. I am not exactly an expert, but I think one thing you need to keep in mind is that probably nothing is going to "work" on a four-year-old talking back. I mean this in the sense there isn't anything that you can do one or two times that will completely solve the problem. It's one thing to teach a four-year-old not to touch the stove, or not to hit her brother. That's a really clear "don't." (Even so, it usually takes more than a mistake to learn the lesson.) But talking back? I think that's kind of tough for a four-year-old to understand. Is: "But I don't want to go to bed!" talking back. Well.... depends on the tone of voice, and how many times it's said and so forth. Honestly, it probably depends a bit on the parent's mood. I think the key is to be as consistent as you can and to be a little bit patient. Also, I don't know if you do this, but a lot of make the mistake when our children are first learning to talk of laughing at back talk. It's so cute when a new talker says it. Not so much as they get older, but it makes it harder to get the lesson across later. I don't know if this helps, but I thought I'd throw it out there!

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